Summicron 50/2 vs Soviet lenses: Test Part II - Rangefinderforum.com
Summicron 50/2 vs Soviet lenses: Test Part II
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Summicron 50/2 vs Soviet lenses: Test Part II |
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| 09-11-2015 | #1 |
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Summicron 50/2 vs Soviet lenses: Test Part II
I appreciated everyone's feedback from the original thread I started regarding this 50mm lens test. The testing proved to be much more time-consuming and difficult than I originally imagined.
It is exceedingly difficult to maintain correct focus plane, frame alignment, etc. even when using Live View. Based on the input I received from the previous testing, I re-did the test today (my wife always says I'm a bit obsessive) and tried to compensate for more variables. --- Objective (no pun intended): To test the center and corner performance of various 50mm prime lenses. Methodology: 1. Leica M 240 (latest firmware) on tripod ~ 1.0 meter from test plane 2. original files DNG uncompressed, converted to best-quality JPEG in Adobe Elements 3. White balance manually sampled 4. two second timer used to reduce image blur 5. in-camera lens profile chosen as 50mm F2.8 for all lenses 6. multiple Live View focus samples taken for each lens in order to improve focal accuracy Lenses used: 1. Canon 50mm F1.4 "Japanese Summilux" 2. Helios-103 53mm F1.8 3. Jupiter-3 50mm F1.5 4. Jupiter-8 50mm F2 5. Industar-50 50mm F3.5 6. Industar-61 L/D 55mm F2.8 7. Olympus 50mm F1.8 (Fotodiox adapter) 8. Olympus 50mm F1.2 (Fotodiox adapter) 9. Carl Zeiss Opton / Sonnar 50mm F1.5 (Contax adapter) 10. Leica Summicron-M 50mm F2 v5 Whew! I think that's it. |
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| 09-11-2015 | #2 |
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First: the overall scene. Taken with Leica Summicron-M 50mm F2 v5 at F8
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| 09-11-2015 | #4 |
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1. Canon 50mm F1.4 at F2.8, 100% center crop:
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| 09-11-2015 | #5 |
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I will appreciate it if you can refocus on an object in the corner, e.g the monkey's face, after shots taken with focus in the center. I hope it's not too hard to do with Live View, and the framing don't need to be changed. In this case it would compare the real corner sharpness at large aperture, without the disturbing from DOF. The results will be interesting.
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| 09-11-2015 | #6 | |
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A Siemens star would be nice, maybe we can exchange info with private message? |
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| 09-11-2015 | #7 |
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Believe me, I think Fotohuis and others will agree -- this is a HUGE amount of work. I have some corner shots of each lens as well, these are (in my opinion) illustrative of each lens' strengths and weaknesses.
At the moment I need to take a break, I'll post more later. |
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| 09-11-2015 | #8 |
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CORNER EXAMPLES, upper left at 100%. All images shot at F2.8, DNG conversion to JPEG at maximum quality.
1. Canon 50mm F1.4           |
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| 09-11-2015 | #9 |
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FWIW here are a few more details about my testing methods:
1. Light source was consistent for all photos, I used a daylight fluorescent lamp positioned about 60 centimeters (~ 2 feet) to the upper right of the plywood. 2. The Jupiter-8 I tested is a chrome version from 1957. I have a later black J-8 but I didn't bother to test it. 3. I also tested an Industar-26 "Red P" lens, and found it performed very similar to the Industar-61 L/D, there were no significant differences -- so I did not include it in the posting. 4. The Carl Zeiss Opton / Sonnar is from my Contax IIa, it is a post-WW II lens but I am not sure what year. 5. All the JPEGs were uploaded to Flickr's servers at best quality. Flickr probably uses some compression but the overall JPEG quality is good. |
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| 09-11-2015 | #10 |
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The Olympus lenses, the Industar 61, and of course the Summicron are really great. The corner is where the most differences are noted.
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| 09-11-2015 | #11 |
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Indeed, right conclusion. Increadible about that I-61 lens. In my test: The same.
 Maybe somebody has the internal lens configuration about this Industar lens. I would be interested in it. |
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| 09-11-2015 | #12 | ||
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I downloaded these simple blue prints from zenitcamera.com a while ago. It doesn't show any technical details but only gives you a clue.
I'm a layman about optics but the Industar-61 looks different from the older brothers. It's said to be the third recalculated of Industar-22, based on the Tessar. 26 and 50 being the first and second recalculation. I personally exchanged the front and rear elements/group between I-22 and I-50 in an experiment, but the reckless breeding didn't lead to bad results, everything stayed as sharp.
Attached Images
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| 09-11-2015 | #13 |
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| 09-11-2015 | #14 | |
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Quote:
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| 09-11-2015 | #15 |
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Well the L stands for Lanthanium and the D for LTM. My 1990 I-61 L/D was much worse then my I-61 (Zebra 1966) but it has to do with a crappy production. So maybe a 1970 model I-61 L/D should be slightly better. What I have seen and feel myself I won't buy anything more FSU materials after approx. 1980.
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| 09-11-2015 | #16 |
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I also have both the L/D version and none L/D version ("Zebra"). L/D is from 90s and zebra from 80s. I had a 70s Zebra but gave it to my father with a FED-3. I couldn't tell the difference between those three lenses. They are as good, or as bad
 . They are my least used lenses, I gave more love to J-8, J-3, as well as I-22 and I-50. |
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| 09-11-2015 | #17 |
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If I wasn't so invested in LTM Canon, Nikkor, and some Leica glass, I'd be looking at Olympus. But I do use their Pen-F lenses, and they are better than some cult 35mm Leica and Canon glass.
I had an Industar 61 for a few years. VERY good lens, just the basic zebra one. A Russian friend saw it on my canon camera in France, and said "those aren't considered very good Soviet lenses....you need to get a Jupiter...." I asked if he'd SEEN the results? Very sharp and contrasty. |
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| 09-11-2015 | #18 |
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Kostya Fedot
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I respect OP for his time and effort. Every time I'm trying to test even single lens it isn't easy at all.
Just one comment about tests like this. If I ever own M240 or even digital cropper which is capable of LTM-M, I would never use FSU or any film era lens on it. I wouldn't even bother to test them. Why? Because it gives crap. And it is proven one more time here. Wanna use film lenses, use them on film or don't use them at all. FSU lens on digital cameras shows nothing relevant to me as FED-2 shoter for thirty+ years. Cheers, Ko. |
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| 09-11-2015 | #19 |
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Too bad he didn't compare a couple of the modern lenses you are advocating. Because since he didn't, your statement is just subjective conjecture.
Yes, some of the older lenses will not be "cell phone perfect". They may have lower contrast (smoother tones), or less resolution (portrait softness), or other attributes an artistic photographer may like. Because some of us shoot for a certain look, not for absolute, pixel peeping (what we are doing here) perfection. For that, you can use a cell phone or a copy camera. Which is what the industry used to photograph small print hanging on a wall. Not rangefinders like in this test. I for one like old lenses. I like a unique look in my lenses. I'm not into chasing high contrast and lines per MM. Because I shoot light, tones, and things larger than a fraction of a mm. A good photographer could take fantastic photos with any of these lenses. But a scientific print operation may not be able to make plate ready copy with one of them. |
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| 09-11-2015 | #20 |
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FWIW I actually tested two additional modern lenses as well. I tested a Konica Hexanon-M 50/2, and a Nokton 50/1.5 ASPH. Their performance was virtually indistinguishable from the Summicron, at least at close range. Subjectively I'd say they were both 98.5% as good as the Summicron. I didn't see much point in posting the results because they were so similar.
Modern lens formulas have managed to compensate for a multitude of challenges. Lens technology has improved by orders of magnitude. I commonly find that the resolving power of the Summicron exceeds what the M 240's sensor can handle. If I won the lotto, I don't think I'd even bother getting the 50 APO. The Summicron is THAT good. Again, I did this test for fun -- mainly to see what the character of these vintage lenses is like. Sometimes I try out FSU lenses during my daily walks. It's never the equipment, it's always the eye behind the camera that makes the photo. Here's an example from earlier in the summer. Jupiter-8 on my M 240. Nothing wrong with this photo.  |
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| 09-11-2015 | #21 |
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One more note: I checked the corner performance of all the lenses I tested when stopped down to F8. All the lenses were much sharper and differences between them were minimal. I suppose this is obvious but I thought it was worth mentioning.
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| 09-14-2015 | #22 |
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I agree, nothing wrong with that photo, or any of them really. I wasn't really saying you should have checked modern lenses, I was commenting on Ko.Fe's post that "all old lenses are crap". He's wrong, of course.
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| 09-14-2015 | #23 |
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I have PDF files of catalogues of Russian lenses (1970 & 1971); they are quite big (10,2 and 7,5 Mb)
RFF only allows me to upload 3 pages and there are 8 on Industar 61 If you are interested I can send them to an e-mail address |
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| 09-14-2015 | #24 |
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The pics above prove that the Industar 61 is a very sophisticated Tessar like lens but very different from the original German lens.
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| 09-14-2015 | #25 | |
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Quote:
On the site it's shown that the later Lanthanum versions for SLR and or RF have a higher resolution, something like 44/30. Regardless of that there was a non Lanthanum Industar-61M lens with 45/28. Too bad the site doesn't show the resolution value for the Zebra I-61. And it doesn't show the Panda version at all. I guess it's the same with Zebra, optically. |
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| 09-14-2015 | #26 | |
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Wow those Olympus lenses are good. |
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| 09-15-2015 | #27 | |
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__________________
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| 09-15-2015 | #28 | |
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David Hughes
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That's not my conclusion... Regards, David |
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| 09-16-2015 | #29 | |
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++++1 (now its 10 characters and some more)
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